Slightly off-topic, since this is a mental health blog, but sod it. This situation cannot be ignored by me. I am fucking disgusted beyond description.
As if the riots themselves were not bad enough, I am beyond appalled to see some people defending the actions of those responsible. Sorry, but WHAT?!
I can not express how offensive such sentiments are to me. As someone who has lived through riots, through bombings, shootings and other forms of “civil unrest”, I cannot fathom how anyone can think the fear, danger and destruction that is evoked in these circumstances is justified in any way. Do you know what it’s like to live with this every fucking night? How do you think ordinary, non-rioting people in London, Bristol, Birmingham, Nottingham and Liverpool must’ve felt…and must still feel? Do you care? If you don’t, then your opinion is worthless to begin with, and you should go and fuck yourselves, you selfish, sadistic fucking dickheads. If you do, how you can reconcile that sense of giving a shit about the rest of the human race with supporting those involved in this scandal is a mystery to me.
Let me get a few things clear. The Metropolitan Police certainly have a lot of questions to answer, and I utterly condemn the killing of Mark Duggan; regardless of the man’s background, killing an unarmed man is a reprehensible act for any state agency (or anyone else for that matter) to engage in. Of course you should have the right to protest if your police service is behaving in a brutal fashion. I support the point that the original protesters in Tottenham were trying to make.
Furthermore, the government is indubitably guilty of marginalising a large number of societal groups, as were many governments before them. I loathe the present administration, as previous posts on this blog will testify, and I think every single one of them should be ashamed of themselves for the way they have consistently allowed an arguable form of oppression of a number of different demographic groups within this country. Again, of course protests are justified when there is such a sense of disenfranchisement.
Protests are not riots, however. Protests are not looting and theft. Protests are not arson. Protests are not inhibiting the work of fire-fighters and the ambulance service. Protests are not attacking people, throwing firebombs at people, mugging people. All of those things? They’re crime. They’re violence.
And just while we’re at it: whilst politics in the United Kingdom is a pathetic joke that will ruin lives, at least we have the right to peacefully protest, unlike quite a few I could name. These knobs have taken that right, and twisted the living shit out of it.
You know, much as I would continue to condemn it and find it utterly repugnant, if people stuck to attacking governmental and police premises, at least I could begin to understand their horrendous actions. Let me repeat, though, that that would still be reprehensible. I remember here, during the Troubles, in many instances the Provisional IRA spread their brand of terrorism by targeting the (overwhelmingly Protestant) police and British government buildings/employees, whereas the various loyalist terrorists often sought out Catholic civilians. Neither kind of actions are forgiveable – no terrorism is – because whether you’re an agent of the state or an ordinary person, you’re still someone’s son or daughter, husband or wife, brother or sister, friend, colleague, whatever. So this would still be beyond preposterous, let me assure you – but at least there would be a very tenuous and weak attempt at an excuse.
As things stand, that doesn’t apply at all. Local businesses are being burnt to the ground – not just even big economic targets, but small, family traders doing their best just to survive. How would these thuggy little twats feel if poor Maurice Reeves was their grandfather? Don’t they care anything for the historical context of the shop he ran? Or about the fact that they’ve just effectively ruined his family’s livelihood? (Apparently not – silly questions, Pan). Don’t they realise that by burning London to the ground, by opportunistically and cravenly stealing from shops despite the alleged nobility of their cause, they are going to fuck the already fucked economy further? Don’t they realise that this will affect them? If they feel economically disenfranchised now, they’re going to feel a hell of a lot worse if they destroy half of the working premises of the world’s fucking capital. The FTSE hasn’t exactly been stable since this whole fuckstainism kicked off.
Even more disturbing again is the fact that people are being made homeless because of the riots. One woman had to risk her life by jumping from a burning building that would otherwise certainly have ended it. Jesus Christ, people, wake up! If they really care so much about social inclusion, how can it be acceptable to burn normal, civilian people out of their houses? It doesn’t compute in my head as to how that’s anything other than diametrically opposed to what the rioters claim to stand for.
Northern Ireland proves that political violence doesn’t work. When the Troubles ended, it was not because either side had achieved their aims; it was because the community at large had had enough of living in a constant state of superveillance and stoic but omnipresent terror, and we wanted representatives from each ‘side’ to work together for a brighter future for this country – for peace (a grass-roots desire has been largely successful, save for some thankfully isolated incidents). I wonder, if any of the people rioting in England in the last few days were actually alive during the Troubles, did they look upon Northern Ireland as a shithole in those days? Most people external to the province did. And yet that’s what they’re doing to their own towns and areas right now. I suppose they haven’t considered how pathetic they look on the international stage, but whether they care or not, the reality is that international relations is highly important, perhaps even crucial, in modern times, and ergo fucking up the PR of the country isn’t the most intelligent idea in the history of time.
(By the way you might, at this point, very well point out to me that both the current First Minister and Deputy First Minister of Northern Ireland both have ((respectively)) loyalist-related and republican-related convictions to their names ((the former for a loyalist ‘invasion’ of a town over the Eire/NI border, the latter for IRA arms charges)). Yeah. You’re right. But consider this: Peter Robinson’s charge was in the mid-1980s, Martin McGuinness’s in the early ’70s. That was a minimum of 25 years ago. It was only when they renounced violence that they got into respected ((insofar as it can be!)), serious politics).
Please. Stop this madness. People get it – you’re pissed off, and arguably with justification. But this is not the way to make your point, and to be absolutely frank, I’m not convinced that everyone involved in this even has a point (otherwise why mug people and commit acts of theft?). You are ruining beautiful, historical, cultural cities and boroughs. You are ruining ordinary people’s lives. You are ruining your very own communities – how nice will it be for you to live in a burnt-out shell for the next few years, particularly if you already feel that you live in a ghetto?
Someone is going to die if this continues. People started protesting, in part, for the very reason that someone was needlessly killed. Now they’re responding by endangering other lives – and fighting (alleged) brutality with brutality is idiotic, spectacularly counter-intuitive and, yeah, to echo pretty much everyone else – simply bloody criminal.
Stop it, you stupid, selfish philistines.
EDIT: I’ve just heard someone else has died. I don’t know who is responsible, but whatever the case, it shouldn’t have to be this way.
EDIT II: Just heard two teenage girls interviewed on the news. “Don’t you mind that you’re ruining the lives of people in your own communities?” the reporter asked. “No,” this silly little cow replied, “they’re only rich people. They need to see that we can do what we want.”
No, you fucking can’t do what you want. With rights come fucking responsibilities. You are childish and disgusting, regardless of your socio-economic class. Fuck.
—
Personal Points
- Worried about Daniel and CVM, both residents of London. I’ve tried to contact them but haven’t heard anything back yet. If either of you are reading this, please fucking contact me!
- Worried also about Seaneen, Titflasher, Magic Plum, UselessCPN and all my other lovely Twitter/blogging friends, though know from the social networks that they’re safe at present.
- I’m thinking of all the people in the affected cities and wishing them peace and safety.
- I hope those organising and participating in these riots are brought to justice. Violence, no matter what ideology it’s in the name of, is completely unreasonable.
- Social media may have been used to mobilise a lot of this shittery, but it’s also being used for good causes in response to it.
- I lay awake last night in growing unease until about 5am, listening to distant sirens and constantly-circling overhead helicopters, keeping up-to-date with news of the riots as I did. I awoke after 7 to hear that some minor trouble had kicked off here in NI, though I’ll not be surprised if it gets worse. The hoods on both sides of the divide here are always looking for an excuse.
- Disclaimer: alleged, own opinion, not reflective of anyone else’s, not a lawyer, not a social commentator, attempted to be balanced because I see the reasons for this but not the actions involved, etc etc. See last night’s look at Anders Breivik and, indeed, the entertainingly-titled ‘Disclaimer‘ page for more information if you really care.
Well said Pan. I am _so_ glad I am not at home at the minute (I’m a Londoner) but am really worried about my family. Theyre Ok at the minute but who knows what will happen next? I see why people are protesting but there ruining ordinary lives in this, not just rich people like that girl you saw on the news said but normal working class people too. God this is awful
(
Thanks for posting
Best wishes
Kate
You know, I wouldn’t mind things so much if the invesigation into the shooting had come to the conclusion that Mr Duggan was unarmed. But we haven’t had the results yet.
I’ve had the alleged joy of experiencing both sides of the line. Dealing with people who seem to think they have a god given right to have whatever they want. Dealing with overzealous police officers who will do whatever it takes to get a conviction. So I have seen and understand both sides of the argument. Yet as Pan states, who gives a fuck when innocent people are being hurt?
I dunno, it’s a fucked up day when you can’t tell who are the bigger idiots, the rioters, the government, or the media tripe which tries to demonise every part of what’s happened or hail the various sides as heroes. That goes for social as well as normal media.
Good rant Pan, way better than mine
Am ok here hun, thank you. Although my town is trashed. Pub burnt out, a building collapsed to rubble, and dozens of shop fronts smashed in. Everything is closed, sirens going off everywhere, it feels so horrible. I was down in Woolwich with my grown-up nephew earlier, and when we were standing by a smashed up shop, 4 boys were there, and one said to another of them – ‘remember you had to climb out from under the shutter?’ and they all laughed. Whether they were just pissing about or actually bragging we couldn’t possibly prove, but the sickening thing is you just know that a lot of people responsible were actually there looking with everyone else today.
There are lots of complicated reasons why things get to a state where riots break out, people aren’t having a great time the way this country is, but doing this isn’t ever right. Feel so bad for the families who have lost their homes so far.
Well said!
I don’t know what else to say – this whole thing just has me feeling so depressed and despairing. My thoughts and prayers are with everyone who’s caught up in the riots.
xx
Totally agree with you Pan
Hi Pan
Thank you. You had the words I could not find last night. XXXXXXXX
Yes, Breivik was correct – obviously. He was correctly observing what’s happening in his own country, which itself is not far behind Britain and France in letting hordes of immigrants in at the behest of the rich capitalists who want them to drive down wages and working conditions.
The solution is to stop allowing them in, and to quit electing politicians who betray their own people by opening the floodgates to turn their own country into a Third World – Islamic to boot. They won’t be done until Sharia law criminal courts and worse.
These immigrants, Islamics/Muslims in particular – don’t come to ‘settle’, or ‘integrate’. They come and form their own communities or just anarchy. As their percent of the population increases, they turn from a nice curiosity or “diversity” into a force to be reckoned with. They become aggressive and start riots, start pushing for their Sharia courts, etc.
Islam, their religion, preaches hatred and death to infidels. Women who are not married or who aren’t veiled in public may be lawfully raped, stoned or killed. A woman who is raped herself becomes the criminal and is often sentenced to death. This is just a part of what they are bringing over. These people, Islamists or not – are desperate and do not share the culture or values of British or Europeans in general. They come from brutal lands where the law of kill or be killed is daily life. They are schooled to rape as they please because Islam says they can – and they do! Look at the statistics – you will be thoroughly shocked and horrified as to who the instigators of rapes and robberies are in Norway and Britain.
So, you are condoning the murder of over 70 (mostly white) people because you don’t like Muslims and immigration?
Don’t get me wrong here, I loathe the misogyny present in some aspects of Islam, and I loathe such aspects’ antiquated beliefs and radicalism. However, I could make a lot of sweeping generalisations about how Christianity has fucked up the world. All fundamentalism – even fundamentalist atheists like Richard Dawkins (and I am an atheist) – is fucked up and potentially very dangerous. In general, I despise allreligion, but I’ve met enough people from Christianity, Islam and other faiths to know that they’re not all the same, and ergo don’t deserve blanket demonisation.
Actually, I know quite a few immigrants who are hard fucking workers, whilst some British and Irish people are sitting on their arses (though the magnitude of such scroungerism is, I believe, grossly overplayed). I think immigration policy needs to be seriously reviewed; it has got out of hand, I agree, but a blanket ban based on xenophobia and a lack of condemnation for a sickening act of senseless violence is hardly the answer.
And the statistics? Five years at university, a lifetime of interest in the arena of which you speak – I’ve seen them all already mate.
I don’t understand why you have tried to hijack this blog for a racist agenda, it’s just totally off topic and you won’t win anyone over to simplistic arguements that ascribe blame to one group of people.
One of the marks of a democratic, civilised society is that it allows an opportunity for people to express their views and hold opinions that are far from the majority view. In expressing your racist values, underpinned with a staggering ignorance of the nature of modern society, you are merely exercising your democratic right. The downside, of course, is that you make yourself look extremely stupid. If you genuinely believe that Breivik was right then it is clearly not worth spending any effort explaining the error in your thinking, because you are beyond explanations and clearly have no reasoning capability. Let’s just say that you should be extremely thankful that the society you condemn, the inclusive enlightened multicultural democratic society, is the very thing that protects you, that stops you from being put against the wall and being shot for your extremist ignorance.
Your Future – not sure what you’re doing here except to publicise the extent of your wilful ignorance about what’s been happening over the last few days. The thuggery that has been dis-gracing our screen for the last few nights has nothing to do with religion or race although, ironically, we have been seeing multiculturalism in practice in that there was no barrier to becoming a looter.
p.s. are you aware that your irrational championing of Breivik will probably (and rightly) put you onto a GCHQ watch-list?
I honestly don’t understand how anyone could condone the killing of innocent people. So you don’t like migrants and Muslims, the answer is to kill them all off then?
Where in the Qur’an does it state that death, hatred and the sexual abuse of women is encouraged? Yes the way women are abused and treated as inferior to men in some Islamic countries is horrendous. That doesn’t however mean that the religion of Islam itself is an evil religion. It’s how the people have interpreted it, extremists who have twisted the religion to justify their own wrong doings. You say that Muslims are the instigators of rape and robberies. What, so in countries where there are no Muslims, nobody gets raped then? So people of other religions, be it Christians, Catholics, Hindus, Buddhists, etc etc. they’ve never robbed or raped anyone then?
You accuse them of not integrating into the wider community. Is it not difficult to attempt to integrate when there are people like you who are racist and radiate a lot of hate?
Of course I don’t support the riots but migrants may stick within their own community for many reasons, not to become ‘a force to be reckoned with.’ Being among those with a similar culture, it gives you a sense of identity and belonging. Not to mention the language barrier faced.
As an Australian born Chinese person whose parents immigrated here to Australia from Asia, I find your racist and xenophobic comment very offensive. My parents work hard and many other immigrants work hard in this country. Though the first generation of migrants may not assimilate well due to the barriers I mentioned above, the generations after have done very well with embracing the culture and customs of the country they were born into, making friends with the white Australians and contributing to society.
Oh, well said everyone.
GCHQ’s reading of this blog may come in handy after all
@BtF/WFH – I can understand how this must be extremely offensive (as you say) as you’re from a family that immigrated (it’s offensive enough to me as a white someone that’s lived in the same place all her life).
What I really don’t get about people like Your Future is that they seem to pick and choose what form of immigration annoys me. For example, I’m willing to bet that someone in Your Future’s family has emigrated to, say, North America or Australia at some point. Why is it OK for them to go to someone else’s country, but not for people to come to ours? Also, by turn, I’d be pretty surprised if he objects as strongly to North Americans or Australians coming here. Not that he (or she, of course) should, obviously, but why is it OK for one group and not another? It’s not just even about race (although ((s))he is clearly a racist, that said)), because people like him (or her) seem to loathe Eastern Europeans coming to the UK too.
I don’t mind ‘patriotism’ but ‘nationalism’, by contrast, is deeply frightening to me. Methinks YF, thanks to his/her racist and reactionary nationalistic views, is perhaps not bright enough to understand that not everyone in this world speaks fucking English.
Here in Northern Ireland, although the demographics are changing and we have more black and middle-Eastern people arriving, most immigration here so far has been from India, China, Poland and Lithuania. The media and people like YF can whinge and whinge all they like, but these people are some of the hardest workers I’ve ever met, and as far as I’m concerned that makes them very, very welcome here. (Further, I’d add that just because someone comes to the UK and ends up on benefits does not necessarily make them a “scrounger”. Immigrants and natives alike can be afflicted by illness, for God’s sake).
Ah, funny how racists are concerned about misogyny when it’s non-white people being misogynist… I suppose women are never raped in Western society then?
Oooh, of course not! Don’t be so silly, B!
*re-reads blog*
*re-reads other similar blogs*
Oh wait…
I’m reading the news about all of this in the United States and I feel so badly for all of the poor innocent people suffering because selfish a’holes want to loot and get a thrill from destroying the hard work of other people. I heard about the death and I really hope things get under control soon. This is a sad commentary on human beings!
Well said – there is no excuse for their behaviour, and I’m sick of the apologetics. Certainly round our way, it’s been clear to see that it’s solely an interest in looting that has instigated this mess.
They’re destroying a beautiful place, they were interviewing a shop owner on the news, all he good say was, “that’s it we’re finished, we no stock so we’re no longer trading”…
It’s got nothing to do with political stance, they’ve seen people in London nicking stuff and fancied having a go themselves.
And for that stupid girl to suggest that it’s ok, because it’s only rich people???? The rioters broke into an Oxfam Shop…
I’d love to know how they’d feel if the tables were turned, but doubt they’d get a clue even then. They clearly lack any empathy, compassion or understanding, so I have a hard time considering them with such qualities either.
And so many of them are so young (12-15 apparently) – that scares me on so many levels.
Take care,
Differently
Well-said. RT @serialinsomniac New Post on Confessions of a Serial Insomniac – Rant: London Riots: http://t.co/YHWOTF8
I love this post, Pan.
Most of the people looting and pillaging and “protesting” right now don’t care about any of the things
you care enough….I know your questioning was rhetorical only and you likely know this. They aren’t thinking about the guy who died. These aren’t angry protests. They are so diffused. Seems like the young are using the temporary lawlessness as an excuse to act out, do what they want.
From the US, this looks crazy and foreign and strange to be happening in the UK. ..all over the UK in most major cities. The people aren’t protesting this guy that died. THere just vaguely mad about their place in life…in the most generous view, seems to me from what interviewees are saying.
This happened in the US after MLK was assasinated but he was a national figure and spiritual leader and it was directly about his loss and the horrible position Blacks had in our society and their struggle against it. The aquital of Rodney King (Black man beaten by White police, caught on tape) perpetrators sparked riots but mostly only in LA where it happened….it didn’t spread to most major cities.
I am not sure what it is about the situation of the underclass in the UK that this could happen and spread like it has. I can’t wrap my head around it. I lived in UK (Kent) for a year and found it much more classist in culture than here but that was 20 yrs ago.
I am sorry for the people’s pain, the people who’s lives are effected, and those like you Pan who are watching wondering and worrying.
By classist, what I mean is that class was talked about as an entity, like Race. My friend self-labled herself and her family as “working class” and to apply for the dole, the form asked her her “class”.
I am not saying that we are more mobile here in the US. That we don’t have equal or greater percentage of poor struggling people nor CERTAINLY that we take care of the less fortunately better than you!? (au contraire…).
I reread my post it seems to be comparative and I didn’t mean that. It’s hard not to. Is the explosion of violence shocking and surprising to those in the UK for such a reason? (as someone said they dont’ even know yet if the police who killed the man did anything wrong!). I have not been able to find out online what it is about social conditions or how youth are being raised that they DONT CARE to this degree. And maybe this could happen in the US. But we have unfair unlawful shootings of citizens, sometimes racially motivated…sadly quite often. I wonder why we don’t errupt more than we do.
I guess I want to understand why this is happening. They are hurting their own communities. It sucks to live in a dump with boarded up burned out houses and businesses. I hope I did not offend I didn’t mean to.
I am so sorry this is happening. Understanding why sometimes helps prevent stuff from happening in the future and this seems unprecedentated to me in a stable democracy. Perhaps I am mistaken…
totally with you 100% Pandora. Absaloute disgrace. Hoping it doesnt come to Scotland. :/ xx
Thank you for posting this. I completely concur.
I was outraged to read so much defence of what these people have done to some wonderful cities, and hard-working people.
I hope that doesn’t come across as ‘right-wing’ — much of the ‘left’ is presently of the view that we must consider the social context of the disturbances, and whilst I can agree to a point, I still believe that people have personal responsibility — but by and large I am socially liberal. I just think it’s not as simple as just blaming everyone but those responsible.
People like Your Future are a disgrace to all right-thinking people. These riots have little to do with racism and a lot to do with thuggery and greed. What Anders Breivik did was detestable and indefensible for ANY reason.
Thanks again,
Ed