If you are in suicidal crisis, please see this page. Alternatively, call The Samaritans on 0845 909090 or email them at jo@samaritans.org. If you feel that suicidal action is imminent, call an ambulance on 999. Help is almost always available, and life can almost always improve.
Please see this page for a list of international suicide and crisis hotlines.
—
This will not go down well.
I’m sure by now many readers know of the story of Joanne Lee and Stephen Lumb (even more in-depth details from The Scum), who formed a suicide pact online and deliberately gassed themselves to death in Stephen’s car. I’m so terribly sorry that they felt this action necessary, though I understand the desperation. I hope they are both at peace, whatever that is.
What you may not know is that I was vaguely familiar with at least one of them. You see, I am a lurker on the forum on which they met, which is a pro-choice-on-suicide discussion group, providing details on methods for the desperate and chronically miserable.
*sits back and watches the mass unfollowing of this blog*
I personally have no imminent plans to commit the act, but due to the level of suicidal ideation I experience (why else would I be on a suicide methods site?!), I did think I would spend some time detailing my thoughts on it.
Largely they’re hypocritical, as so much about my fucked-up personality is. To that end, I’d warn anyone from reading on if they feel they will find triggers or justification for any sort of suicidal behaviour here.
But this exemplifies the point: I’m a hypocrite. It is, apparently, my genuinely held belief that if you want to do yourself in, that should be your perfect right (not controversial or anything, oh no), but already I’m warning people away from reading this if they find themselves in agreement and therefore think I am justifying their actions. I’m not. Yet I am. What can I say? I’m defined by contradictions.
I’ll not provide the name of the pro-choice forum here as I don’t want to ‘tempt’ anyone, but if you’re really keen, I’m sure it won’t be that hard to find. Other pro-choice internet sites include those of books or just general information. There are a number of actual written publications on the matter.
Most of the discussions in all the aforementioned places focus on the best means by which to top oneself. There is quite in-depth analysis on what is the least painful method, what is the quickest, what’s best for suicidal gestures, what is most dramatic.
People really do kill themselves after reading this stuff, as the case of Joanne and Stephen exemplifies. Most don’t, and will generally admit to “chickening out” of the act and/or stalling it. But some people do do it.
I have (or had, as she no longer seems active) a Twitter follower who is the mother of a girl, Suzy, who killed herself by following the instructions of an individual talking to her on a pro-suicide website. The mother is campaigning for ‘assisting’ suicide over the internet to be made illegal. Neither she nor her husband knew of their daughter’s deep depression, until they received a time-delayed email from her informing them that she had died. Needless to say, they were devastated.
And this is of course where the primary problem with killing oneself lies. If one commits suicide, he or she almost certainly leaves behind a group of friends and/or family that will be consumed utterly by grief. Fortunately, I’ve not known anyone who has done it (the closest is a friend of a friend), but from what I understand, those left behind after a suicide feel their loved-one’s death with even more bitter and raw hurt than those whose loved-ones have died in other circumstances.
Presumably this is in part related to guilt:
I should have known. I could have prevented it.
If I’d acted on his/her threats/poor mood/whatever, we could have got help.
It’s because of me/us! (S)he must’ve really hated me/us.
This is, of course, assumption on my part and if I am wrong, please tell me. There’s also the more altruistic idea that family and friends are appalled that the person’s life was so miserable that they would even consider the act at all.
I suppose people are, with justification, angry too. How dare someone deliberately leave their friends and family overcome with grief and a lifetime without that person? Suicide is selfish, right?
And the shame too. It’s cowardly, isn’t it?
I can understand these views. Honestly, I can. I can only imagine – and I only want to ever imagine – that if anyone to whom I am close killed themselves, that I would react in some of these ways too. Probably the guilt thing more than the others, though, or so I’d like to think.
There’s a philosophical background to my views on the rights or wrongs of suicide, what with my long-held position as an existential nihilist, but I’m not going to start debating the issue from that standpoint as, in truth, it’s only a small part of my reasoning for feeling as I do. Mainly my vaguely pro-choice stance is because I can profoundly understand one’s desire to cease to be.
People who never suffered from real, genuine and severe depression will never begin to understand it, and I hope they never do. I’m not trying to belittle the suffering of others; I’m just saying that this kind of blackness is very different from the pain incurred by your average human being living an average life. The agony is not something I would wish on my worst enemy (I’ll stick other nefarious means of torture for that, thanks). I’m not even going to waste your time or mine by trying to describe it. The suffering is indescribable, the future hopeless, the past gone. I cannot conceive of anything more bleak. (I’m sure someone might say, “hmm, what if Fallout 3 was a reality? Sure the aftermath of a nuclear holocaust might be bleaker? You pathetic, whiny bitch, Pan!” Well…maybe you’re right, and I am a miserable, whinging fucker who should grow up and count her blessings. But maybe there’s a difference, too? A nuclear holocaust is a disaster for society and the world; true depression is a disaster for the self. The magnitude is wholly divergent in the grand scheme of things, but when taken from the depressed person’s mind alone, I can assure you that that magnitude does not seem so very different).
So, depression is horrendous, to use what is frankly a tiny word for an immense state of being. To the mind of a normal person, suicide is not the answer. To the severely or chronically depressed person, there is no other answer. Is that rational? In most cases, I don’t believe so, no. Rational and logical reasoning is lost amongst the dark clouds of blackness – most of the time. I believe that this can be true even if one is cognisant of the supposed benefits of psychopharmacology and psychotherapy – because the nature of severe depression is to see no hope in everything, you cannot even appreciate that there may be hope for you in these pursuits.
However, being in the midst of irrationality and a lack of logic is precisely the time that no one should choose to end their lives. I understand why they do – I have been there more times than I care to remember, and I know how visceral, compulsive and overwhelming the desire to die is – but it is not considered, and it is in the vast majority of cases something that will pass or can be overcome.
Suzy, mentioned above, hadn’t as far as I know informed anyone outside of the suicide newsgroup of her mental health difficulties. She was young, intelligent and by all accounts previously fun-loving and vivacious; she could well have gotten better. Her case exemplifies why it is absolutely crucial that the stigma surrounding mental illness is eradicated; had she (and, I’m sure, countless others) felt as comfortable talking to a doctor about her mental health as she had about her physical health, she maybe could’ve gotten help.
Existence can become more positive. I’ve stood on the precipice of death and looked down…and come back from the brink to not spending every waking second daydreaming of my death. I’m not saying I’m not suicidal, because I don’t think I ever won’t be, and I’m not suggesting things will ever all be sweetness and light – but in many cases one’s future can probably be liveable, endurable. That’s not much of a life, granted, but if it can be lived, then it surely should be – if not for your own sake, for that of your loved ones.
There’s a big, massive ‘but‘ here, having said all that, and here’s where the suicide forum of above comes in. Suicide isn’t usually rational – but it can be. Have you tried drugs? Yes? Have you tried many types, many cocktails? Yes? OK. Therapy? Yes? A number of different types of therapy? A number of different therapists? Yes, yes? You’ve been in hospital? OK.
But you’re still chronically and severely mentally distressed and ill. You’ve exhausted every option of help you could reasonably and unreasonably have found and your life is still unbearable. You’ve weighed up the pros and cons, you’ve balanced your suffering against the suffering of others. In many cases that I’ve read of there are in fact no others, despite people’s best efforts.
These are the minority of cases where suicide can be (not necessarily ‘is’) more rational.
Is it really so cowardly in these circumstances? Seriously? To have suffered incredibly and endlessly for decades, beyond a ‘normal’ person’s comprehension, despite one’s every effort to try to end that agony? Hasn’t the person been brave and to have faced such hardship for such a hideously long period? Aren’t they allowed some peace, after exhausting all their ‘morally acceptable’ options? And can you imagine the amount of strength and courage it must actually take an individual to muster to take that final jump, to turn on that poisonous gas supply, to actually kick that stool from underneath them?
And who is more selfish here? The permanently/chronically ill individual who has remained alive for years despite their enduring torture, or the people around them that want them to remain alive simply because they’d be missed, even though they are fully aware of their misery?
And if we continue to demonise suicide in these extreme circumstances – and even less extreme ones – are we not demonising one of the most fundamental rights we as humans are supposed to have; the right to our own agency and life choices?
We all suffer, although for most people that is overcome quickly, or is comparatively low-level. Imagine, for a second, if it wasn’t. Imagine if that misery was permanent, and at an even more amplified level that that which you have already experienced.
Suicide should never be encouraged. But perhaps we as a society should be less quick to condemn, and more eager to offer compassion and empathy?
—
Again:
If you are in suicidal crisis, please see this page. Alternatively, call The Samaritans on 0845 909090 or email them at jo@samaritans.org. If you feel that suicidal action is imminent, call an ambulance on 999. Help is almost always available, and life can almost always improve.
Please see this page for a list of international suicide and crisis hotlines.
—
An aside: I first started writing this post 364 days ago. I was scared of the controversy it would create, but I believe I have been balanced here and, as ever, the old truth remains that if you don’t like what I write, you don’t have to read it.
New Blog Post: #Suicide http://j.mp/9Hcapb #notcontroversialoranything #mentalhealth #depression
New Blog Post: #Suicide http://j.mp/9Hcapb #notcontroversialoranything #mentalhealth #depression
I think what I dislike most is when people say “if you kill yourself you’ll go to hell”. It may work as a deterent but it can make people feel even more helpless, they’ve been given this illness and they either suffer throughout life or suffer in hell. I personally think that’s completely unfair. When something is completely unbearable in life why would a God those people see as all caring and loving send you to hell? I don’t want to start a relgiious conflict I just don’t believe that people who kill themselves would be sent to hell when all they are doing is escaping an inner hell. I’m not an atheist and I do believe there is a creator yet I’m still unsure of their control over us over the actual essence of the being. But enough about God, calling suicide a selfish act can be correct when you’ve had a lovely caring family all your life and then jump out of a window shouting “goodbye fuckers” just to make them cry and cause them depression and pain but when you have conflict within yourself and have tried everything in your power to be “okay” just for a few hours and it doesn’t work then is it really selfish to want to be at peace? I think this could lead into a euthanisia argument which I was completely against until I suffered myself from mental illness xx
New Post: Suicide http://bit.ly/9Hcapb #borderline #PTSD
I could have written this post myself. Well, actually I couldn’t, because you write far more eloquently than me, but I agree with what you said. I have also lurked a lot on the newsgroup, and I believe I even posted a couple of times. I don’t think you can censor the internet – people will always be able to find the information they need. I am a little uneasy about suicide pacts, as I suspect sometimes one person wouldn’t actually go through with it alone, but being in a pact makes them, and I don’t think that is a good thing, because if you really do want to die you will do it alone or with someone else if that makes sense? I know what you mean about being hypocritical. I do think people have the right to kill themselves – I believe that. But I always urge people to get help, and to go into hospital if they need to etc etc. I think even if you believe in the right to die, it is hard to actually know someone is intending to kill themselves.
‘And who is more selfish here? The permanently/chronically ill individual who has remained alive for years despite their enduring torture, or the people around them that want them to remain alive simply because they’d be missed, even though they are fully aware of their misery?’
That is what I always argue. Nobody ever seems to agree with me though. I have said so many times that I don’t think it is any more selfish to kill yourself, than it is for others to keep you alive when you are that desperate. It is weighing up one person’s happiness against another, and saying that yours is less important when saying you have to stay alive.
‘Suicide isn’t usually rational – but it can be. Have you tried drugs? Yes? Have you tried many types, many cocktails? Yes? OK. Therapy? Yes? A number of different types of therapy? A number of different therapists? Yes, yes? You’ve been in hospital? OK’
I have done all of this. Not very many different types of therapy, but everything that is available to me. There possibly would be things that could help, but if they aren’t options they may as well not exist at all. I feel like I have tried absolutely everything that is an option to me, and therefore if I want to kill myself that is a reasonable decision.
@Pan: you’re no hypocrite. Sure, you live with contradictions — who doesn’t? Look at me as an example! The best definition I ever heard of a hypocrite is someone who pretends to be something they don’t even want to be — and I don’t see that in you. You hold on to your hope that life can get better because you want it to get better even when you can’t see any evidence of that happening. That’s not hypocrisy, that’s being human.
Having got that out of the way: thank you. I think, as you say, you have achieved a balanced view here. Suicide is an absolute tragedy for all involved. My wife has had the unfortunate job of doing funerals for several suicide victims (and I think victims is the right word) — the grief that wracks the people they leave behind is utterly horrendous as they ask all the questions you’ve outlined above. You are right: suicide should never be encouraged, but nor should it be condemned; we need less antagonism and more empathy. More love!
@Simone: I for one do not believe that suicide is a one way ticket to hell. For starters, I don’t believe in hell: I think the concept of hell as it’s evolved in Christian theology is a load of tosh; but if there is anyone who ought to go there, it’s probably the kind of person who is so lacking in empathy that they’d throw that at either someone contemplating suicide or at their grieving family and friends afterwards.
You’re always a wise one Phil!
I may have my moments, Simone, but always? Better ask my wife!! Thanks for the vote of confidence, though
Pan, this is a very balanced piece of writing. Your last sentence:
Suicide should never be encouraged. But perhaps we as a society should be less quick to condemn, and more eager to empathise?
sums it all up perfectly in my opinion. Sadly, empathy is unfortunately lacking throughout our society.
I submitted a comment which hasn’t appeared. If I seemed to say or imply anything offensive/judgemental, then I’m sorry and it was wholly unintentional.
No, not at all – I’m not sure what happened. I checked the spam folder and it isn’t there, and I certainly did not unapprove it. Even if you disagree with me, I always welcome respectful debate, so please don’t think I’m censoring you.
I know it’s a pain in the arse, but could you resubmit the comment or similar? Sorry you’ve been inconvenienced hun – it honestly wasn’t intended.
*hugs*
P.
Basically, the gist was that I think everyone has a duty to live, but that I don’t think it’s selfish to want to escape under extreme circumstances. I did make one attempt, when I was 19, and I think I was very selfish under the circumstances (my illness wasn’t that bad) but I wouldn’t call anyone else selfish for their attempt(s).
New Post: Suicide http://bit.ly/cxxRUo #borderline #PTSD
I am in substantial agreement with you, but perhaps also willing to go a bit further into the controversial.
Yes, yes, yes to the question “Who is selfish: the suicidal person or the people insisting s/he continue a life of unending torture?” Unless that person’s suicide has made the survivors so miserable that they end up living a life of unending torture themselves, they are still better off than the suicidal person.
I feel incredibly grateful that venlafaxine exists. If that hadn’t worked, the only thing left for me to try would have been the old school tricyclics and MAOIs. If I didn’t live in a time when there was a drug that worked for me, I suspect I wouldn’t have gotten better. What of those who live in a time where the one thing that can help them hasn’t been invented yet?
When I have been suicidal, the professionals have told me “suicide is not an option”. When I have been suicidal, I have thought that I was a terrible awful person who deserved the punishment she received in the form of depression. When I had to rationalize my suicidal impulses with the imperative “suicide is not an option”, the only way I could explain it to myself was that I was such an awful person that I deserved no end to my suffering, not even suicide. I had to tell myself that suicide was too good for me. That is just about the most depressing thing I can think of. (And I am livid and stunned and confused when I tell professionals that and they don’t respond in complete horror. How can they be so heartless?)
For the people who are beyond depressed, who live in a black so dark that it is incomprehensible to most of the rest of the world, I think suicide prevention is unconscionably cruel. It is for that reason that I cannot support suicide prevention generally, because it does not distinguish between those for whom suicide does not make sense and those for whom suicide does make sense. The goal isn’t the alleviation of suffering, it is the stopping of suicide. They think those goals are one in the same, but we know that they are not the same. I, personally, think it is better to lose a few extra innocent lives, people who would have been glad to have been saved from suicide, than to consign too many to lives of endless torture.
I think that part of the lack of empathy is that most people cannot understand this level of suffering. They simply do not believe it exists. They do not believe us when we describe it; they think we are exaggerating or something. If there is no suffering so deep that you would not regret your suicide, there is no rational suicide; I get that. I can see this from their perspective, but they aren’t even willing to try to see it from our perspective. Yet some of these people are charged with the care of people suffering in ways they do not believe exist and they are not even willing to imagine existing. If they cannot even entertain the idea of this level of suffering, they have no business caring for those who are experiencing it. It would be like a mother demanding that her paralyzed child walk, yelling at him for being lazy, because she doesn’t believe in paralysis; she has no business mothering a paralyzed child.
I haven’t committed suicide. I have gotten much better. I would not regret it if I had committed suicide, though, because no amount of good living can make up for those years of utter blackness. Maybe I will change my mind someday, when I have been happy longer than I have been depressed. Maybe people think I’m being naive. Bullshit. They are naive not to believe in this blackness; they can call me naive after they’ve spent half their lives living in blackness.
And even when suicide really isn’t the right choice for someone, when they would turn out to regret it, maybe we should have empathy for the suffering they are experiencing that has driven them to consider suicide, instead of shaming them for it? Oh, but that is probably the most radical thing of all. Clearly, punishing people who are suicidal helps them. (Sorry, I’m getting bitter and ranty now.)
This is one of my favourite posts by you, it is very honest and direct.
I think life is a right, not a duty.
Felt compelled to save this quote:
“People who never suffered from real, genuine and severe depression will never begin to understand it, and I hope they never do. I’m not trying to belittle the suffering of others; I’m just saying that this kind of blackness is very different from the pain incurred by your average human being living an average life.”
RT @Serialinsomniac: New Post: Suicide http://bit.ly/cxxRUo #borderline #PTSD
Youare just brilliant Pan. I could not agree more. Great post.
Best wishes
Kate
I think u write well and the post is interesting to read.
x
As a fellow chronically suicidal person, I totally get this honey. I get that you’re being careful to see orb sides in the matter. As a commented I have the freedom to represent only my perspective on things presented here. I firmly believe in the right to exit permanently. Peoplewho are left? Whenmy day comes, which I assume will one day, I will not be concerned about those few I leave behind. This IS Suicide, no? Theright to say ok I care about me and I can’t take any more. It says there are people who will have their stuff about me being gone for abit. But I come first and I come last. Guilt schmildt. Thatis other people’s issue, not mine.
As you know I agree with you completely that there is pain and there’s Pain. Not all depression is the same. Not all trauma is the same. There is amscale there that one can only fully appreciate if they’re on thecaredwood side of it. Yes blah blah politically correct blah every trauma hurts and those hurts are different for everyone. But I’d one hasn’t been thru the…extremity…of what cruelty humans can really do to one another, to children, to their own kith and kin….
This is a greatpost hon. But the entire point of suicides thedecision to finally, for once, to be the o e who Counts.
As someone who has, ‘been there, done that, got the t shirt’ yet has been happy and without even suicidal thoughts for almost five years – it’s great to read such quality writing, but the black background remains a really down-er!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Still 150,000 readers can’t be wrong? Right? Odd.
Love N.
I have had my own very real experience with coming dangerously close to suicide just days ago. I tried to write about it very openly and honestly on my blog. For some reason, right at the very last millisecond I stopped myself. I’m still trying to work out why. It wasn’t a moment of chucking some pills down my throat which would thereby give me time if I changed my mind; it was a plan which took months to have the courage to see through, it was a method that would have been 99.99% certain of death and within minutes. And it took a hell of a lot of strength to stop myself from doing it, but something did.
On a personal level I think it mostly boiled down to how I would leave other people, primarily my parents. They know how much I have suffered with mental health problems over the past 8 years or so but they have something that I had totally lost – that small and seemingly simple thing that is hope. They hope that one day I will feel better, be comfortable in my own skin and have a better quality of life. I’ve seen my mum have very emotional moments where she has broken down and asked me if this is somehow her fault, has she failed me somehow as a mother to make me hate my life so much… and the answer is of course no, she has been a brilliant mum… it is purely because I can’t cope with my life.
And so, I suppose what stopped me was knowing the pain of losing my own child, suddenly and without warning. The shock and deepest hurt you could ever imagine at the time of the event and the years of denial and pain which follow it. The point at which you would do anything to save the life of your child even if it meant sacrificing your own life. I might be coming on 29 years old, but I am still my parents baby, their only little girl. So when it came to the final straw, the point of no going back, I freaked out because I knew they would never understand, because they live their life with hope even when I lose all of mine.
Is suicide selfish in my eyes? Most definitely not. Are these pro-choice sites bad? No I don’t think they are. I consulted many of them whilst making my own plans on how to end my life. Is it worse to carry on living in the blackest of depressions to spare other peoples suffering? I think that’s a very personal choice. People will always argue that when deeply depressed your thinking is irrational and therefore you can’t make a rational decision over your life… but have these people ever walked in the shoes of the person who is so utterly low? No, they haven’t. There will always be people who will say they were desperately suicidal but something or another made them stop, there will always be people who try and give hope and share their own inspirational stories of how they beat depression, but no-one apart from the sufferer knows how badly it affects them.
I do agree that all avenues should be tried before such a final action is taken, and I also agree 100% that these stigma’s surrounding mental health *have* to go, people have to be able to open up about their emotions because for the girl you mention who only told people online how bad she felt, I do think there could have been so many options of help available to her. But people do desperate things when they are desperate and I guess that’s what suicide boils down to… a desperate measure to leave a desperately hopeless feeling life, that no one else will ever understand no matter how much they try.
[...] of a Serial Insomniac has a very thoughtful post about suicide [Warning: triggers for suicidal ideation] I’m sure by now many readers know of the story of [...]
RT @Serialinsomniac: New Blog Post: #Suicide http://j.mp/9Hcapb #notcontroversialoranything #mentalhealth #depression
I was suicidal in 2007. I was met with mostly hostility from family members. I can understand it to some extent, but it didn’t help. Eventually, my suicidal expressions were punished out of my by psychiatric staff, and gradually my suicidal thoughts decreased (probably some kind of cognitive-behavioral process). I do not like the way in which I was treated, even though it prevented me from committing suicide. I think we need not encourage suicide, but indeed, it’s time for more empathy and less condemning.
Thank you so much for posting this.
And yes, been there, done that, got the t-shirt. I was trying to explain this to my mum, that when you are suicidal, you don’t think about other people, or what will happen after you die. All you think about is wiping yourself out. The first time I attempted suicide, I actually thought I was doing my housemates a favour because I was making them unhappy, and they’d be happier if I was dead.
I never went on suicide forums, mainly as I didn’t know they existed, but I can’t say I haven’t been tempted to when it gets too much. The one thing that’s stopped me is the effect it would have on my family, because I couldn’t bear to hurt them. I just hope I never get to that stage again.
Those “left behind”: the problem is that they vanish from the pan of the scales when that moment is reached. They are forgotten. As if they never existed. All that is is the hell of self. And that is why suicide is fundamentally, and pedantically a selfish act – it acts purely in relation to the self. I don’t believe anyone but an idiot killed themselves to ‘get back’ at someone.
But this was a really good post. It’s been a shitey shitey shitey month, and too much of the old you know going through the head. Strangely, I enjoyed reading it, despite all.
Take care, and hope you’re well.
I thought, as always, you gave a very balanced and well thought out view. I don’t know if you heard it but suicide forums were just briefly mentioned on Radio 4 and actually I was impressed at the balanced and sensible views of the guests.
Thank you for such wise, well written thoughts – from a lurker
I wish I had some better input than: I agree with all the points you’ve made.
It’s scary to be on the brink. Someone taking their own life isn’t selfish…
The guilt of someone doing so would be unbearable though. I can only just about cope with my mother’s attempts. I would lose my mind if she managed to kill herself.
I wish people never had to endure the pain and pressure that would lead them to killing themselves. I wish people would sit up and take notice /before/ someone attempts it. Mental health professionals and GPs don’t seem to take people my age seriously unless you say that you have suicidal thoughts. Unfortunately, for people like us (or at least me), you don’t realise how abnormal they actually are, because you’ve gone through periods of suicidality as long as you can remember…
Sigh.
Take care all.
Both my parents killed themselves. Different years; different reasons. My mother had paranoid schizophrenia. She’d had enough of it.
My view is that if you need to then go ahead. BUT try not to involve innocent third parties eg train drivers. Also be aware that you may be condemning your loved ones to a life of PTSD and related problems. My old life died too; the present one is only worth having because I have sprog.
Psychotherapy and disability benefits aren’t what I had in mind, but there you go. Shit happens.
I don’t know what to say except that I am so genuinely sorry.
Hugs, for the very little they’re worth. x
Thanks. 12 years later I have reached a plateau which I quite like. I aim to stay here, Tory governments notwithstanding. Definitely worth the struggle, so it is.
I like your blog – it has echoes of my mum in it.
Also my suicide post ( http://ow.ly/2KY71 ) is now fifth most popular on the blog – I only posted it on Friday afternoon!
RT @serialinsomniac: Also my suicide post ( http://ow.ly/2KY71 ) is now fifth most popular on the blog – I only posted it on Friday afte …
a very late comment, catching up on Pan’s blog not wanting to miss anything.
I am so deeply sorry (in empathy) for all of you who could be in such pain that you need to relief and comfort of knowing that suicide exists as an option. I have never been suicidal, but I have been so blackly depressed (decades ago) that I could not stand to be concious the pain was so great. It hadn’ t gone on long enough, and was somewhat situational, so I had not lost hope that it could not possibly get better. I think it’s why I just slept through it rather than ended it…still had hope.
Perhaps thats what lets me have a glimpse of what the pain might be like, and compassion for suicides. I loved your post Pan. Suicide is not at all selfish, and those who think it is cannot possible imagine, I believe, the degree of pain most people would need to be in in order to need to contemplate it. A dear cousin of mine has a suicide plan, I believe as she’s a nurse and has hinted around about it. She has cancer and if her existence gets unbearable and there is no hope NO HOPE for any remission…and she is the arbiter of if it’s unbearable or not…she will off self. And to think she is selfish to do so is cruel.
the sad thing as you pointed out about the young woman in the suicide pact is that she had felt so bleak that apparently did not exhaust all possible options before choosing the final one. The problem with depression is it can dupe you sometimes into thinking there is no hope when there is (like when a young person who is not getting any treatment or meds or therapy does it)…they are not selfish just not informed or convinced of hope. I’d tell them, if they could, to try to bare the pain longer to see if treatment worked.
It helps me not to think of suicide when depressed (I suck, am a waste of space etc) by remembering that I do and can contribute to others and make a pos dent in the karma of the world. That’s my game for justifying my existence when I had needed to. I hope you can use that one as well as the thought of your mom and A’s pain. I say it not to guilt you but to be sure you DO have the data about how much you are currently giving to the world with your blog and your amazing potential that will be cut short. You are not a selfish person as far as I can see and if you need to do the deed it will be because you decide that your pain is too great to withstand it. That is not a selfish act. (I reminded you of your contribution because I don’t think you understand how much you have to give to the world and how you already are impacting things…at least you don’t get it all the way done). I am sorry if this offends in any way.
Pan it seems to me that you contribute so much to the world that you are a net positive energy by far…just look at this discussion. I am sorry to wade in and don’t know if you’ll get this late comment but look just at your contribuiton with this one blog post..huge impact. You are so young…I have huge hope for you even if you don’t…your absense will leave a net loss for the world for sure. It’s the truth. And it is not meant to guilt you if you feel you need to do the deed…it is only that like your family and A, it is weight on the other side if you are going to make a rational choice. If you feel your pain is too great to bare it, you are NOT SELFISH. I think the data point about your impact now and potentially in the future
last paragraph was meant to be deleated…I’d rewitten it to make a shorter post with less intrusion. Sorry to be redundant
I totally agree with our right to die. I am there today but maybe not tom. The torture is all I can take. Anyone someone please help me find a way to end it all.